When new policies or procedures are introduced, even the best intentions can lead to confusion, misalignment, and workplace tension.
In an effort to avoid conflict, middle managers sometimes distance themselves from change by framing it as a “leadership decision.” While well-meaning, this approach can unintentionally create an “us vs. them” dynamic, damaging trust, increasing resistance, and straining workplace relationships.
If this sounds familiar, you’ll want to watch this recorded webinar.
You’ll gain practical insights from our conversation with Dan Kaplan, Founder of Confident Communicators, LLC, and learn how to communicate change in a way that builds alignment instead of friction.
Topics covered in this session include:
- Why triangulation happens during change, and why it’s usually unintentional
- The critical role managers play in reinforcing (or undermining) HR messages
- A simple communication process HR can use before change is announced to reduce resistance and prevent being “thrown under the bus”
What You’ll Walk Away With:
- Strategies to prepare managers to deliver aligned, confident messages
- Tools to reduce “us vs. them” dynamics during times of change
- Techniques to help employees re-orient faster and return to productivity
- Insights into how DiSC® helps you understand how different styles respond to change and uncertainty, so you can frame messages that reduce fear, build buy-in, and increase consistency across the organization
Guest Panelist: Dan Kaplan | Founder, Confident Communicators, LLC
Dan Kaplan is driven by the belief that anything is possible if we can just learn to talk to each other. As a mountain-climbing expedition leader, Dan has guided many teams through difficult conversations and high-altitude danger. Combined with his nearly 30 years of communications leadership experience across the public, non-profit, and private sectors, Dan helps leaders and teams communicate to their audiences and each other.
This webinar was recorded live on March 25, 2026
Session Transcript:
Jeff Plakans:
Afternoon, everybody. Thanks for joining us during your lunch hour to learn about this wonderful topic with our wonderful guest today. We’re talking today about a different kind of topic than we’re used to. I know we usually talk about wage and hour law, stuff that’s kind of like [inaudible 00:00:20]. Today’s not that kind of a conversation. Today’s a conversation where we’re going to talk about communicating change without getting thrown under the bus so we can get back to work. We’re joined today by an old friend, Dan Kaplan from Confident Communicators.
For those of you who don’t know me, many of you do. I’m Jeff Plakans, founder and president of Commonwealth Payroll and HR. Of course, we’re joined by Susannah Forbes also, who heads up our HR benefit practice for our team here at Commonwealth. Many of you know Susannah as well. We’re going to cover a bunch of things. Hey, Dan. Hey, Susanna. How are you guys doing?
Susannah Forbes:
Great. Thanks, Jeff.
Dan Kaplan:
Yep.
Jeff Plakans:
So we’ve got some housekeeping, hate to say, that everyone says that, but housekeeping. We’re going to talk and cover a lot today. We’ve got an area not only for you to submit questions, that’s in the top right-hand side of your console. It’s a little box with the question mark on it, that’s great. So if you have questions, we’re going to get to the question and answer period at the end of the session. We’re going to be asking some questions along the way. We’d love some feedback. We’d love for you guys to be active. There’s lots of you out there, so use the chat feature to give us some feedback. Now, I’m going to hit you with a question because I just want to test this whole chat thing out. The question is, as soon as the temperature reached 65 degrees what was the first thing you went outside and did?
I want to see some chats rolling in. Doesn’t have to be great, doesn’t have to be spectacular. If it’s funny, you get bonus points, but that’s okay, it’s not about the bonus points. Just give us some feedback, if you can, on helping answer that question. Again, the question is, as soon as it turned 65 degrees, what did you do, what was the first thing you did when you went outside? Now, while you’re answering, while you’re thinking, if you had to think about it, Dan, tell us a little bit about Confident Communicators.
Dan Kaplan:
Oh, it’s pretty simple. Thanks, Jeff. We do two things. We help leaders be more influential and we help organizations build cultures of open communication.
Jeff Plakans:
Wonderful, excellent. Well, we’re going to talk about communicating change without getting thrown under the bus. What are we going to learn today, Dan?
Dan Kaplan:
Glad you asked, Jeff. We’re going to take a look at the four different communication styles. Maybe not everybody knows this. We’ll be using a model called DISC to help us understand the four different communication styles, and we’ll consider what each of those different styles needs to hear during change, needs to hear to help them get back to work more quickly. We’ll end also with a template. We have a little gift for everybody, a template that you can use with AI or without AI to create a change message for your organization so that it hits on all those needs and everybody gets their questions answered and they’re going to be less likely to throw leadership, HR, etc, under the bus. So you want me to take it away, Jeff? Are we ready to roll?
Jeff Plakans:
I think we’re ready to roll. I’m still looking for some chat back here. So either we’ve got this thing messed up and nobody can chat in, or… Oh, here’s a message.
Susannah Forbes:
I’m seeing some chats, Jeff. Yeah, we got some folks that bought some sunscreen, went for a walk.
Jeff Plakans:
All right, yep. Good, good, good, good. Well, I got sunburned after about five minutes. Dan, let’s run with it.
Dan Kaplan:
Super. By the way, what I did was I went out and smelled the flowers. It was incredible. It was incredible. All right. We’ve got it tough these days in HR. We’ve got some really hard messages to deliver. I put up a couple here that I’m seeing with my clients, but would love to hear in the chat some other challenges that you might be facing, some big change messages, change in policy, change in leadership, change in strategic direction, change in funding. Nobody likes to hear about this. What happens? Usually they’re going to throw us, the messenger, HR under the bus. Anything come in, in the chat?
Susannah Forbes:
Not yet.
Dan Kaplan:
Jeff, no? Okay. All right. Okay, so what happens? We spend all this time creating our change message, putting our emails together, making sure everybody’s had their sign-off on the messages. Then we send it out on our various channels and our platforms and our email. What happens? Middle layer of management, they throw us under the bus. They want to be liked by their teams, so they say, “Oh, they’re making us do it.” HR or leadership becomes the bad guys, the enemies. “I disagree with it. They’re making us do it,” I call that triangulation. That’s called triangulation, and it’s one of the most destructive things that I see in cultures. Just imagine why this is so bad for the cultural organization, let alone bad for us because we’re the ones getting thrown under the bus.
Jeff Plakans:
It’s polarizing.
Dan Kaplan:
Yeah, it is. Also, I tell managers, it doesn’t serve them. It makes them look weak to their own teams because their own team members are going to be thinking, “Well, if I need my boss, my manager to go to bat for me for something, they can’t even stand up to their own bosses.” So it’s very destructive on the personal level and the cultural level.
Susannah Forbes:
Dan, sorry to interrupt. Just a quick side note, folks. It looks like we’re not able to add to the chat, but certainly you can use the questions function as a chat or questions. I’m monitoring it, so keep putting information in the questions section and I’ll be on top of it. Thanks, Dan.
Dan Kaplan:
Super, no problem. All right. So it can really help us to have two things to overcome this problem of communicating change and not getting thrown under the bus. Number one is an understanding of human psychology and what people need during change. The other thing is a process, a good process to go through. I’m going to share both with you.
All right. Now the psychology part of it, I’m going to use a model called DISC. If you’re familiar with DISC, hit us up in the chat, let us know. I’m going to explain it in case you’re not, but you don’t have to use DISC as your model. You might use Myers-Briggs or Enneagram, or you might be a StrengthsFinder organization. That’s fine. Your behavioral assessments that you may already have invested in, tons and tons of amazing information in there to help you understand what people need in communication. I just happen to like DISC because it’s been around for well over a hundred years. The science is really good, it’s validated, it’s in use across the world, and we have this amazing tool called Catalyst where you can get advice and look up your teammates. If anybody’s interested in any of that, you can let me know, but we’re not really going to get into that now.
At this point, we’re just going to talk about the four different styles. All right, Susannah, I’m going to ask you to mute because I heard you coughing a little bit. Thank you. All right, first style is the direct style. We all know people who are super direct, right? These people are fast-paced, active, assertive, dynamic, bold, fast talker, fast thinker, don’t need a lot of information to make a decision. You see here on the left side, they’re fact-oriented, questioning, logic-focused, objective, challenging. I don’t mean a difficult person. I mean they’ve got no problem pushing back.
These are the kind of people who they come into work and they don’t even say hi, immediately get down to work, talk about all the things that they got going on and things they need you to do. The kind of person who in a meeting, and you can read the adjectives here in the green section, kind of person who in a meeting doesn’t have any problem calling out the problem and the elephant in the room. Everybody’s like, “Oh my God, can you believe they just said that?” Well, they’re not trying to be a jerk. They just want to get through the problem as fast as possible to get to the results because that’s what drives them, results. Sometimes they put results over emotions in a minute. So anybody here identify as a direct or dominant style communicator? That’s you, Jeff. All right.
Jeff Plakans:
I’m a DC, but okay.
Dan Kaplan:
All right, yeah. Well, what does that mean to you? How does that show up for you to be a direct communicator, direct style?
Jeff Plakans:
A lot of people take me the wrong way sometimes.
Dan Kaplan:
How? How so?
Jeff Plakans:
When I’m joking, they can’t tell. That’s one thing. When I’m serious, they can’t tell.
Dan Kaplan:
Okay. So during change, when you hear about a big change, what’s going on in your mind? What do you need to hear? What’s helpful to you?
Jeff Plakans:
Well, get it out on the table and then figure out what’s behind it and what it will mean.
Dan Kaplan:
Good, good. See, we’re already trying to get somewhere with this. Yeah.
Susannah Forbes:
We have another person on the call as well that’s a D.
Dan Kaplan:
Okay, yeah. As I go through these four styles, please share not only if you think that’s your main style… Because we’re all a blend of all four, 100%, and everybody can do all four styles. This is not to put anybody in a box, it’s just to help us understand needs. But as I’m going through these four styles, put into the chat what your style is and what’s helpful to you when you’re hearing about change.
Okay, so the next style is the influence style. Also fast-paced, fast talker, fast thinker, active, assertive, dynamic, bold, does not need a lot of information to make a decision, but instead of being facts-oriented, these folks are much more people-focused. So accepting, empathetic, agreeable, receptive. “Hey, however you want to do it, that’s cool. Yeah, your way is great. Let’s go get a beer after. Cool, fine.” These are the cheerleaders of the team, the upbeat, the people who love to collab. I’m going to talk it out to figure it out, the collaborative types. But sometimes when it comes time to closing the door and working on the spreadsheet or the deep work, they maybe move on to the next bright, shiny object because they love the new opportunity. People driven by recognition, relationships. These are the kind of people who in a 30-minute meeting spend the first 20 minutes chit-chatting. Then the last 10 minutes, “Okay, let’s get done to work.” Because they get things done with their relationships. All right, so who’s this? Who on the call sees themselves in this style? Anybody?
All right. Well, let’s move on to the next style then, steady style. Like the influence style, very people-focused, empathetic, receptive, agreeable. Take a look at the adjectives. But instead of being fast-paced, fast talker, fast thinker, these folks are much more cautious, reflective. “Have we checked in with Susannah on this? Is Tawana on board? Let’s make sure John’s okay before we move ahead.” Very in tune with everybody on the team. I’m down there, I’m a CS style. I can say, as an S, I’ve been accused of being sensitive, taking things personally. Not that I can’t be direct. No, of course I can be direct. It takes energy for me to do that. I’m driven by support, not just to be supported, but to support those around me. I like harmony. I like to see what’s coming. That’s how I do my best work. During times of change for me, it’s like if my boss could just say, “Dan, I know this is going to be hard for you, but we’ll get through it together.” Oh my God, man, that’s all I need to be there to get over the hump.
Susannah Forbes:
We’ve got some Cs on the phone, I mean on the call. We’ve also got some SCs. Shocker, probably, that someone from HR would say that she’s a CS.
Dan Kaplan:
Yes, lots of [inaudible 00:13:21]. Lots of [inaudible 00:13:22] and combinations of S in HR, right? Because we love people, we want to be there for our teams, right? We want to help. Okay, so then the last style is the conscientious. Cautious, reflective, facts, data. You know what? I’m going to read this 100 page report and then I’m going to tell you what I think. I’m not going to that meeting without an agenda, I’ve got to be prepared. I might even get stuck in paralysis by analysis, I’m such a deep thinker. I’m not going to that networking meeting. That’s going to take way too much social energy from me. Not that I can’t do it, it’s just I’m going to have to go have a beer and a nap afterwards.
The kind of person who maybe reads their email three times before sending it. Why? Because I am driven by accuracy. It’s got to be right. If I’m going to put it out there, that’s a reflection on me and it’s going to be correct if I put it out there, even if it slows everything down. By the way, I’m not asking you 10,000 questions to slow you down. I’m asking you 10,000 questions to get my head around this whole thing so I can do it right the first time, because I’m not doing rework, not me.
Okay. Who’s got some C, conscientious style in them? Okay, any questions about the four styles? All right, there’s no judgment here. This is really just to understand people, understand how we can use the psychology to influence other people, to influence them, to get them to do what we need them to do with less friction and less stress. You might want to think about the four styles as office characters, by the way.
Okay. All right. First thing to think about in the context of communicating change is how the four styles make their decisions. So these styles, root cause analysis, as soon as I figure out the root cause of the problem, I am done analyzing and I’m moving on to action. C style, whoa, whoa, I’m not done analyzing yet. There’s more data to look at. In fact, I might even get stuck in paralysis by analysis. I style, I’ve got to talk it out. Intuition, that’s how I’m going to figure out what I think. The S-style, we need to make sure that everybody’s voice gets heard. That’s not just for inclusivity, it’s really because that’s how we make our decision, based on how that thing is going to affect everybody.
Some of our workplace stressors are different. Take a look at the slide. Think about what you might need during times of change, what might stress your teammates out during times of change. We’re starting to see how we can use this to our advantage. Fears are different, too. Fears are different. Again, this is not to put people in a box. It’s just to understand tendencies and trends and blind spots. Do you see any of this coming out during stressful times of change in the different styles of different people around you?
Jeff Plakans:
Fears of appearing weak and being wrong.
Dan Kaplan:
Yeah, right. Well, where does that come from? It comes from our driving human needs. Everybody remember Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs from college? It’s real. It’s real. I like to call this slide, I think it’s the most important slide of all, I like to call this the secret decoder ring to human beings. If you can understand this, you can influence people. You can also stay grounded yourself. Let’s just take that example, Jeff. You said, what was the fear that you had mentioned?
Jeff Plakans:
Appearing weak, which was with the D, and being wrong, which is the C.
Dan Kaplan:
Well, first of all, thank you for your vulnerability. Appreciate that. But what’s going on under the hood for that DC style? During this time of change, my sense of control, I don’t have control anymore over what I had control. That’s a big problem for me. By the way, for a D style, it doesn’t have to be, I’m the one in control. It could just be the situation better be under control. If it’s not under control, damn straight, I’m stepping up and I’m taking control. I can’t be seen as weak. I have this big need for autonomy, controlling my own destiny, but also to be seen as competent. Standards. We have standards for a reason, people, we need to follow them. It’s not your turn. Understanding, I got to get my head around this whole thing before I’m comfortable moving forward. I can’t go ahead with the limited data that you’ve been giving me.
Are we starting to see why human needs drive emotions, drive emotional reactions? I think it’s really important for everybody to remember that positive human emotions come about as a result of our human needs being met and negative emotions come about as a result of our human needs not being met. This isn’t to say that some people have some of these needs. No. All human beings share all of these needs, it’s just that these needs are more pronounced in certain styles than in others.
All right, so where am I going with all this? All right, so here’s what I want you to do now that we’ve sort of done the basic description of the four styles, I want you to think about at least one person on your team that you need to communicate a change message to. Think about that person. You got them in mind? Could be your boss, by the way. It doesn’t have to be somebody under you. Okay, so I’m going to teach you now how to identify somebody’s style.
First question to ask is naturally, every day, not under stress, is this person naturally fast-paced, fast talker, fast thinker, active, assertive, dynamic, bold? Or are they more cautious and reflective, moderate, calm, methodical, careful? It’s a continuum. You can be in the middle. You can be towards the top. I happen to be off the charts at the bottom. You wouldn’t know that by the way that I’m presenting myself right now, but like I said, this just takes energy. So think about how they are normally every day, not under stress. You got them placed? Okay, put it in the chat where you think they are on this chart.
Next question, is this person naturally, every day, more questioning and skeptical? Logic? Your data stream does not comply. Challenging? No problem pushing back, challenging the situation if it’s not factually correct? Or are they more accepting and warm, people-focused, empathetic, agreeable? “Yeah, that’s cool. Let’s get a beer. I love it. Yeah, hey.” I happen to be directly in the middle on this one, exactly. Okay, but put it in the chat where you think your person is.
Susannah Forbes:
Nothing yet.
Dan Kaplan:
Okay. Well, that’s it. That’s all you really have to do. When you take these two measurements and you put them against each other, you get four personality types: Fast-paced and questioning, fast-paced and accepting, cautious and accepting, cautious and questioning. Goes back to the ancient Greeks, Hippocrates and the four humors, if anybody remembers that from college. But that’s DISC, that’s all it is, and that’s how you identify somebody’s style. You want to think about them like birds. We got the eagle, the parrot, the dove, and the owl.
Okay, so now that we know somebody’s style, let’s think about what they might be thinking about or needing when they hear about a change message. To do that, let’s pretend you’re announcing your new policy. The new policy is going out to the entire company and there’s your D-style. What does Shrek say in the movie? “I’m not the one with the problem. The world seems to have a problem with me.” So what are those D-styles thinking? They’re like, “Why are we still talking? There’s a problem somewhere, I got to go.” Then you got your director of sales types, your sales folks. “We’re going to swap manly stories, and then in the morning, I’m making waffles.” What’s going on for them? Oh my God, this is so dry. How does this help?
Then you got your head of HR, loyal to a fault, been with the company forever, “You monster.” Oh my God, my team is going to be overwhelmed with all this. How are they going to… So concerned with the other people. Then we’ve got our CFO or our controller, “Duloc is a perfect place.” Measurement must be precise. Oh my God, there’s a problem with that, one little cell, one little part of the presentation, everything else is now suspect.
So what are we going to do with this information? How are we going to use this to help people adjust to change? Well, let’s think about the psychology of change. When people hear about change, morale will go down. Sorry, it’s a fact of life. There will be a period of disorientation, confusion, frustration, insecurity, anxiety, sadness. Some people will quit. They might quiet quit, but they’re going to quit. But those that stay, they will, the more resilient types, they’re going to go through a process of reorientation, accepting, exploring with this new information, problem solving within it until this new world has become their new normal. What a lot of leaders don’t understand and why they fear giving change messages, because they know it’s going to affect people and they know that this is going to happen. But I think if we as leaders understood that, while we can’t make this go away, we can shorten the drop and shorten the amount of time it takes, thereby reducing the number of people who quit, then we’ll be a little bit more equipped and less fearful about communicating change.
So how do we do this? All right. Well, if your employee that is hearing this change message is in this quadrant, probably what’s going on in their mind is, “What’s going to happen to my freedom and my authority? What’s going to happen to my status?” or “Nobody asks me,” or maybe, “I just need an outlet to state my objections.” Jeff, you said this was partially you. Is this resonating for you?
Jeff Plakans:
Yeah, very much so.
Dan Kaplan:
Over here, it’s more about connection, human connection. I just need to howl at the moon and I’m good. I’m good. What’s going to happen to my relationships? Am I still going to be in the in group? Down here, as I said, in the S style, if my boss just said to me that they understood how hard this is for me, that’d be enough. I’m there for you, I’m back at it. Then over here, it’s data. It’s data and it’s understanding. What’s the clear system to get back to normal? What’s the clear expectation of me in this change? What’s the plan to get back to normal? I need as much information as you can share with me. Up here in that DC quadrant, there better be a damn good reason for this. If it’s not well-thought-out, I’m not getting on board. We all know people like this.
So it’s a matter of meeting these needs, not just in your initial communication, the email blast, what have you that you send, a town hall that you send out, but also in helping your managers who have to reinforce your message because they’re the ones on the front line getting the hard questions from their staff, preparing those folks to not throw you under the bus and to be equipped and ready to answer those hard questions. How am I doing so far?
Okay, so a couple of phrases that you can use, that your managers can use for those D-style employees who need that control and results. It’s going to be something like, “Here’s what’s changing. Here’s the new objective. What you have is under your control. Here’s how we’re going to move forward.” They don’t need all the details, but they do need the why, as Jeff said. Over here in the I style with that need for connection and recognition, a phrase that can really help is, “Here’s what’s making this all possible. Here’s what I need from you. We need your help collaborating, getting everybody moving forward together. I want your creativity. Let’s get on board. Let’s figure this out, how we’re going to make it work together.”
Down here, S-style, support, stability. “I know this is tough. I know there’s a lot here. Here’s what’s not changing, and here’s the support we’re going to provide along the way.” Then with the C-style, we need that data, that logic, that clarity. “Here’s the why, here’s the reason, here’s how we decided. Here’s what it means for you. Here’s what I need from you. Here’s my new expectations of you and here’s where you can go read more details until your heart’s content and get your head around the whole thing.”
Okay, so one of the handouts we’ve got for everybody is this little interaction guide, which this is my little cheat sheet, little reminder for you. You can print it and put it by your desk to help you with this. Okay, so any questions about the psychology piece of it before we move on to the process part?
Susannah Forbes:
Dan, I have a question for you. Do you find that it’s good for folks to acknowledge to the person that they’re dealing with that that may be their style upfront and that they’ve taken this direction and explanation because they believe that’s that person’s style? Can you make that assumption?
Dan Kaplan:
I wouldn’t make that assumption at the start of you’re using a tool like this. It can get you into trouble. The more experienced you come with it, the more fluent and fluid you become with it, then yes, I’d say later on. But what I would say is a question that is always helpful to ask, just kind of a framing of what you’re getting at is, “What does support look like to you?” When we ask that question or a question like that, we’re giving the space for the other person to share what they need regardless of-
Susannah Forbes:
I like that. Yeah, I like that. Great, thank you.
Dan Kaplan:
Yeah. Okay, so let’s talk about a process. All right, so here’s my process, five steps. Now, look, we’ve all been in a meeting where a decision was made. Then you put together your email, you send the email blast out, and five minutes later, the head of sales is in your office, “Sales didn’t.” You were in the room, come on. Step one is to make sure that your leadership team has two things, clarity and buy-in. Clarity and buy-in are in the five behaviors model. If you’re familiar with the five dysfunctions of a team, one of those five dysfunctions that all teams suffer from is lack of commitment to decisions. The two components that help people commit to decisions, even if they disagree with it, are clarity and buy-ins.
What is clarity? Clarity is making sure that everybody has the same understanding of what that decision is. A great way to get clarity on your leadership team before you go public with a message is to, after the decision was made, to go around the room and have everybody explain in their own words what that decision was. Now, you might think that this feels like kindergarten, but let me tell you, it’ll prevent you from getting egg on your face. It will prevent you from having to go back later and re-explain or retract things. Why? Because in that meeting, behind the closed doors, you’re going to hear everybody’s different definition of what was decided and it’s your opportunity to get clarity before you go public.
The second part of this is buy-in. With buy-in, really what it comes down to is helping people on your leadership team feel understood. If people aren’t going to have a chance to weigh-in, they’ll be less likely to buy-in. So it’s creating that space for people to object, to discuss, to debate. Then after they’ve got a chance to get it off their chest and the decision has been made, they’ll be hopefully a little bit more likely to support a decision, even if they personally disagree with it. Okay, so that’s step number one.
Then prepare your message, including responses to difficult questions. Anticipate the tough questions you’re going to get, put it into a document, and then you can train or help or work with your middle layer of management to tell them, “Hey, this change is coming. Here’s a script you can use. Let’s go through this so that you feel supported, because my expectation is that you’re not going to throw leadership under the bus and say, ‘I disagree with it.’ That’s destructive to everybody involved, but I want to make sure that you feel equipped and prepared to support the messaging.” We have a template for you and I’m going to talk about that next. That’s step two.
Step three, deliver that message, use your channels. Step four, listen. Provide that feedback loop. Again, if people don’t have a chance to weigh-in, they’ll be less likely to buy-in. So make sure that you create space for people to object, howl at the moon. Remember all those needs that we talked about before. Listening is not agreeing. We’re just helping people with their need to express themselves, to feel understood, etc, etc. Then repeats. It used to be that we’d say repeat a message three times before it’s heard, now it’s up to seven with social media and everything.
So here’s your template that you can use. We’re going to include it, I’ll send it to everybody after the workshop. I’m just going to walk through this. You can see in that section that says message, it’s a structured message. It’s a structured change message. “Here’s the change. Here’s why we’re making the change, the business reason. Here’s how we decided. Here’s all the things we considered, what we wrestled with, what we weighed, all the problems that we came up against. Here’s what’s in it for you, both as an individual and for the organization. You know what? Let’s admit to the downsides, and I will. This is not going to be easy for some people, for some things, for some situations. We’ll admit to that. But here’s our plan to get back to normal, here’s all the resources that we have and the ways that we’re going to support you, and I’m going to open it for questions.”
Now, if you take this template and you put it into ChatGPT or Gemini or your favorite AI, along with your new policy change, whatever leadership change, whatever that is, put both of those documents into ChatGPT, you can say, “Hey, create a one-page messaging document, or draft a one-page messaging document that I can use to prepare my managers.” It’ll spit out a nice little first draft that you can edit and it’ll help anticipate these questions. Because of the way the template’s structured, it’ll help your managers with phrasing and language to use for each of the styles of their employees. Really, really helpful, useful tool that we’ve used very, very successfully with a lot of organizations.
Okay, so before we open it up for Q&A, I’m going to leave you with something super practical, which is how do you start? The hardest part is always about five seconds and guts. That first phrase, the way that you begin is really, really important. Why? Because there’s something called anchoring bias. What is anchor bias? Anchoring bias says that… There’s over 180 documented human biases, and one of them, anchoring bias, says the first thing you hear will impact everything that follows. So the way you start is really, really important.
Okay, so I’m going to unpack this for a second. This is a great book, I love this book, I recommend it to a lot of people. It’s not my favorite books on communication, but it’s a very good book, Super Communicators by Charles Duhigg. In this book, he says, most of the time when we have a conversation, it’s on the surface level. That’s where we’re exchanging issues, ideas, and topics, etc. But that’s not where the real meaning in a conversation happens, is it? No. The real meaning, it’s like an iceberg, it all happens, what he calls, “In the under conversation.”
There’s three under conversations going on every time we open our mouth. The first one is the practical. That’s where both of us are thinking, “What’s this really about? Is this about the fact that I got a promotion and you didn’t? Is this about the fact that I didn’t text you back? What’s really going on here?” We spend so many mental cycles trying to figure that out, that it detracts from the content. Is this true in your life? True in my life.
The next one is the emotional. We’re trying to figure out how do I feel about this? How do I feel about you? How do I feel about myself right now? Whether we’re conscious of this or not. When people tell me, “Oh, dang, people should just leave their emotions out of it at work.” I’m like, “It’s all right. We’re human beings. It’s not possible.”
The third under conversation is the social. Who are we to each other, really? I know you’re my boss, but at the end of the day, do I matter to you, really? A lot of that has to do with power and proximity. In every conversation we have, power is in flux. Someone’s gaining, someone’s losing power. Proximity, are we getting closer or farther apart as a result of this conversation?
Keeping these under conversations in mind, knowing that this is where the real communication happens, not on the level of content, we can use this to our advantage. We’re going to frame. We’re going to frame our message by the way that we start, and that’s going to affect everything that follows. So as an example, you go to the dentist and the dentist says, “This isn’t going to hurt a bit.” Then it hurts like a [inaudible 00:36:52]. Where’s your trust with the dentist? It’s in the toilet, right?
Susannah Forbes:
Doesn’t exist, yep.
Dan Kaplan:
But if the dentist were to say to you, “I’m not going to lie, this is going to hurt,” and then she gives you the same shot, the same pain. Where’s your trust now? Much better, right? There was a study done, police officers went into the inner city. They asked the kids in the park, they went in and they said, “Can I talk to you a minute?” to the kids. What do you think the kids did? “Can I talk to you a minute?”
Susannah Forbes:
Ran.
Dan Kaplan:
Yeah, they bolted. Then they went in again and they said, “Hi, I’m Officer Dan. I’m walking around, trying to get to know the community. Can we chat for a minute?” More of the kids stuck around. Why? Because the under conversation, what’s this really about, how should you feel or could you feel about it, and who are we to each other, all got answered in the first phrase. So here’s the phrase you can use the next time you have a big change message to deliver to your team. “We’ve got some change that’s going to take some time to getting used to.” Nobody likes to have a ton of bricks dropped on them. Prepare them, let them know something’s coming.
All right. I’ve got a couple resources for you. We’re going to open up to Q&A in a minute. Number one is, if you’re at all interested in a workshop to help for you to become more influential or to create a culture of open communication, please let us know. We’ve got a 2-Minute Daily Tip, if you’re interested, it comes out on Mondays and Thursdays, where I talk about all these strategies to be more influential. Jeff, do you get this 2 Minute message?
Jeff Plakans:
I’m a subscriber. I get a lot of things, but it’s one of the things I actually read.
Dan Kaplan:
Oh, good.
Jeff Plakans:
You’re in there with my Wall Street Journal and my Daily Stoic.
Dan Kaplan:
Wow, sweet. Thank you. Also, we have a community. We have a wonderful community of people who are using DISC to become more influential and build cultures of open communication. If group coaching, resources, forum, a supportive group of people sounds like it could be helpful to you, let us know. We’ve got a little request more info form here, hit it with the QR code and you can sign up for any of that or to learn more about any of that. Okay, that’s it. That’s what I got.
Jeff Plakans:
Wonderful, Dan. Thank you so much. Load up the questions now, if you’ve got more questions. Now, before the questions get asked, yes, we will be sharing a recording of this. We will be sharing Dan’s cheat sheet or template. Very, very, very useful. Thank you. That will be coming out to all of you who’ve registered, and even for those of you who registered but are not here at this moment. Good question that just came in. You want to attack that one, Susannah?
Susannah Forbes:
Sure. We got a great question here, Dan. What do you do if your staff are not honest with you?
Dan Kaplan:
Oh, goodness, yeah. Well, this is the kind of thing that coaching really helps with. Frankly, I would need more information to really identify what kind of advice I would give in this situation, but let me think if I can maybe do this in generalities. This is interesting. When we use power over people, they get defensive and we’re not as effective. I mean, just think about the last time somebody used power over you to compel you to do something. “You need to tell me the truth.” It just doesn’t sit well with people. I like to tell people, it’s not what you say, but it’s how you say it, or better yet, it’s not what you say, but what is heard that matters.
So the first step is to understand what’s going on for yourself. How’s this making me feel? Let’s get grounded so you can speak intentionally. What do I need right now? The second step is to think about the other person. Who are they? What’s going on for them? What’s their style? Do they need to be told this directly? Do they need to be told this in a more supportive way? Then the third step is, how do I frame my message so they can hear it? So it’s not you against me, but you and me on the same side of the table, like we’re working on a puzzle together.
The best advice I ever got was when I got married and my grandmother said to me, “Dan, always remember, it’s not you against your wife. It’s you and your wife against the problem.” I call this whole thing me, you, us. If we know that the other person is, let’s say the other person is an I, or influence style, upbeat, fast talker, fast thinker, but very people-focused, relationships-driven, I would talk about how their behaviors are affecting the people around them. If this person were more of an S, a supportive style, people cautious, who has a need for harmony, who has a need for support, I might say, “I feel like you’re not telling me the whole truth. When I don’t have all of the information, it’s really hard for me to fix the problem.”
You see, where I’m going with this is to frame the consequences not as power over, “This will happen to you if you do that,” but to frame the consequences in terms of the needs that they have. To a direct style person, Look, you want to get better results, you’re going to do X, Y, and Z.” Straight and to the point. To a C-style person, it’s behavior, impact, change. So you don’t want to dump a ton of bricks onto a C-style person and say, “Hey, we need to talk.” That’s just going to make them defensive. They need to see it coming. Describe the facts, describe the behavior. “I’ve seen X, Y, and Z. I’d like to talk to you about this, this afternoon. Can you come by at 2:00? What else do you need to help prepare for this conversation, for what might be a very difficult conversation? What else do you need? Because I don’t want you to feel blindsided. I want us to both be able to have a constructive conversation.”
Susannah Forbes:
The follow-up, Dan, to this was, if you don’t know their style because you feel like they’re being dishonest with you, so you’re having a hard time understanding who they are, what would you say to that?
Dan Kaplan:
It happens. There’s so many things I would say that, but I have so many more questions. I would try to observe them when they’re with other people, during meetings. Look, people can be deceitful, people can be toxic. People can not have your interest or the organization’s interests at heart. Those kinds of situations, I don’t know, Susannah, you’re the HR person, you tell me if you agree with this, I might be getting too harsh here for some people’s taste on this call, but if you’ve got toxic people who are disruptive and you don’t remove them from the team, what is everybody else saying about you?
Susannah Forbes:
Right, yeah, for sure. I think it’s important to understand people’s styles, but I think honesty is pretty important. If I’m dealing with someone that I don’t believe is being honest with me as a manager, I think it’s important to have that conversation because you can’t let a behavior exist, you can’t let it continue to go and wonder a month from now that they’ve been lying to you for a month. I think those are behaviors that we as managers and business owners need to address head-on if we believe that’s happening. Because dishonesty isn’t necessarily a style issue. Dishonesty is a behavior that’s not acceptable within any type of relationship, business, employee, personal, anything like that. I think that more has to do with good, open conversation and then figuring out what the style is to address what the outcome of that conversation could be.
Dan Kaplan:
It’s hard. It’s tough. We’ve got resources to help with having difficult conversations, giving feedback. All of it’s learnable, all that’s doable. It just takes time and energy.
Jeff Plakans:
I think that’s a great question to wrap on. A few points that I do want to make, and that is that obviously there’s lots of resources that Dan has led us to. Dan, thank you so much for all that you’ve shared with us today, very much appreciated. In case no one noticed, we did get into a little bit of HR discussion, something that we’ve been doing quite a bit of here at Commonwealth Payroll and HR. For some folks who have been longtime clients of ours, that’s maybe a new thing or not a normal conversation that you’re used to having with us, but something that, as I said, we’ve been engaged in quite a bit for the last couple years now.
If you want to know more about what that’s going to mean to you or you want to figure out more about the services that Dan can bring to the table and how he can help your organization, we’ve got lots of ways to chat. If you want to watch this again and get back to us, feel free to mention this webinar to your customer service and support specialist. We’re happy to help, we’re happy to have a conversation and we’re happy that you allowed us to invade your lunch hour. So thank you very much everybody. Have a wonderful rest of the day.
Susannah Forbes:
Take care.
Jeff Plakans:
Thank you.
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